69 Comments
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D Bergy's avatar

I doubt if that will happen since “everything is negotiable”. If it does, I don’t see why domestic silver producers would not get a higher price. We import three times as much as we export, so domestic silver would stay in the U.S. at the imported tariff price. Why would they sell it for less as an export?

I am sure that Trump thinks this would spur further investment in Silver mining. Possibly to a degree, but as these tariffs could go away in four years, I doubt any long range mining projects are going to depend on this artificial construct.

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David Jensen's avatar

When the price of silver breaks-away from the paper bridle, it will not matter.

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D Bergy's avatar

I hope it happens soon.

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Simon Gedye's avatar

Monday of next week would suit me fine ..!!

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James Irwin's avatar

Own US products of silver for tax benefits. Watch action on new Texas Silver Bars.

Sunshine Mine silver bars may r a premium

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James Irwin's avatar

May receive a premium when patriotic laws are passed. Sunshine Mines 100 oz Bars are my favorites. I use European bars as gifts to traveler associates and our children. (Sheets of stamped grams).

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James Irwin's avatar

Trump’s opposition makes serious natural resources mistakes. US has silver mines.

Democrats in California can’t even manage water supplies.

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Simon Gedye's avatar

' California Democrats ' in their widom sold the bulk of the water rights to a husband and wife with Zionist leanings . Think this was planned rather than an oversight .

Join the dots .

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john.dentice's avatar

Kevin Muir has written about tariffs in general and Hedgeye has too. Not specific to silver, but in a wider context, the market is NOT positioned for wide ranging, long term tariffs. The consensus is that this is 'just Trump's negotiating style'. However, these analysts have shown how Trump favours tariffs via public statements (going back decades). As per presentations prior to the Election, Trump sees tariffs as both a way to boost US jobs via onshoring and provide material revenue for the Federal Government. The state of the US Government debt / deficits is at a point where Trump must show a narrowing of the deficit, otherwise face a bond meltdown. DOGE will struggle to do all the heavy lifting and Trump will not raise taxes. Within this framework, tariffs make sense to him / his Administration. Your analysis about silver may be a clue to what the general market is missing. Specific to silver, if the above is correct, I see no reason why Silver would be exempt. Cheers John.

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David Jensen's avatar

Thanks John.

China has been enriched by using their quasi- and full-on slave labor, lax environmental standards, and technology that was both gifted and stolen from the West to run several decades of trade deficits that transferred wealth to China.

Those days are over and in addition US deficits are not sustainable by exporting debt.

In my view, tariffs are a certainty however the question of which imported goods are exempt is the remaining big question.

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James Irwin's avatar

Direction change is slow. No either or is achievable without tremendous changes to balance sheets from strict policy changes and sell off of huge assets (?), divisions, or markets.

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Simon Gedye's avatar

Given the example of ' Smoot-Hawley ' back in the day , this is surely proof positive that any tariff system ultimately backfires upon its instigators - why any different this time around ..??

Another factor that ' DJT ' seemingly hasn't considered is that in real terms these tariffs he's wanting to place on these imports - aren't in real terms going to cost them anything - rather they will be an additional tax levied on and paid for by the U.S. tax payer.

Also there is the time line to factor in . ' IF ' Trump imposes said tariffs rapidly - then where is the industrial production capacity within the USA he can switch over to easilly . I'd have thought in many cases there isn't - as you can't magic a skilled workforce and new factory's and workshops out of thin air ( like you can currency / money supply via QE ) .

Futhermore , I rather imagine that the narrowing of the deficit is nigh on impossible , that a meltdown in the Bond Market is knocking on the door and just waiting for the floodgates to open wide + possibly ' DOGE ' will be a distant memory within 12 - 18 x months , if not somewhat sooner ...??

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James Irwin's avatar

“Wide ranging long term tariffs “ are exactly what is necessary after 3 years of mismanagement by Treasury, NY Central Bank, and US CONGRESS. US Debt, Balance of trade, and free spending ego among all levels of government are here. Rumor: US Treasury wire shipping funds to BIS( 15 Trillion $$). US Dollar Index will fluctuate? DOGE will create hysterical population reactions if US Agencies and US Departments are actually streamlined.

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Robert Eden's avatar

I speculate no tariff on silver - too vital for industry (and defense). But, if he does, there will be a small benefit for US producers. Actually the US should import more for reserves.

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David Jensen's avatar

Russia announced a few months ago that they were buying silver with state funds to encourage silver refining in Russia to drive up domestic production capacity. Tariffs would do the same.

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Robert Eden's avatar

Agree, but Trump will be out of office before any meaningful production increases are realized. You said "silver refining," and I am referring to production. Aside from permitting issues, refining could increase faster - if the raw material is available.

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James Irwin's avatar

Possibly correct. Every thing Trump does will be FOUGHT at every level. Trump has powerful philosophical enemies. Research Atlanticists and old money groups descended from Roman Empire (Rumor : Jesuits?) Black European Nobility and Bank of England).

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Poisoned Kiwi's avatar

I'm not in the industry (plus I'm in NZ); do you know if the US production can expand to a meaningful (whatever that means) extent without significant refining etc. capacity expansion? Raw material supply aside. Can this be easily done? I know a thesis could probably be written on this. I'm just curious.

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David Jensen's avatar

There are a lot of silver mines shuttered because of the suppressed price.

Stroke of pen from Fed & State level can unleash restart of production in short time trucking feed to operating and shuttered mills.

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James Irwin's avatar

David you and I are dreamers. In my past life I have experienced the incompetence of USA Government. We do not react well unless a disaster happens. Here in Los Angeles, California after burning 25,000 Homes earlier this month rebuilding is not looking good.

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Simon Gedye's avatar

James - I think that we are all " Dreamers " - just that we are making our way through something of a hell-scape where pretty much everything seems to be

pitted against us . Hopefully we'll get past this and emerge into the sun rise

of a far better future in front of us .

As regards California and your exoerience of the " incompetence of Government " .

Frankly don't think any of the huge destruction of homes and infrastructure , which weirdly left vast numbes of trees and vegitation unscathed .. SCRATCHES HEAD ..had anything to do with " incompetence " - rather it was planned and came about courtesy of DEW's direct energy weapons / ' Rod Of God ' and the like + Weather manipulation from such as HAARP or it's much newer version .

MAUI WAS CLEARLY JUST THE TEST RUN .

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Simon Gedye's avatar

I know that you're in the mining business yourself so best placed to

know how long it would take to breathe new life into a previously shuttered mine . Just how long do you therefore think it would approximately take to get how ever many of these mines back

into production ..??

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David Jensen's avatar

If the permitting authorities would work with miners a lot of the former high grade mines that had shut down could be put into production by mining and shipping ores to current producers for processing. Building and permitting a milling operation takes years. Shortage of manpower and equipment will still be a thing over the first few years.

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Simon Gedye's avatar

Then factor in the continuing insatiable demand from India and China - not only in industral terms but also by their ever increasing middle class populations who have century's of inbred love of Gold & Silver and a combined citizenry of something north of 3 x Billion people . The Chinese people regularly save 35% of their monthly income

which I think comes to something akin to a sum between USD / $ 3 - 6 x Trillion .

Thr property market is ' F _ _ ked ' , their banks are paying bugger all interests , they're

prevented by law from owning foreign currency .....So just wonder what they'll be converting their savings income into . Cold , Hard , Beautiful Metal - Me Thinks .

Then pile on top the ongoing supply side deficit and how as you've regularly been pointing to that the LBMA in particular and indeed the COMEX have been running on empty for ages & are now on the point of conking out via complete inventory depletion , and there we have it ...The Express Train slams into the Buffers at unabated speed .

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James Irwin's avatar

Perhaps? Direct money investment and tax advantages by US GOVERNMENT are quickly available. Theoretically tariffs sound reasonable but work through international markets and political posturing.

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James Irwin's avatar

China is the world’s (?) 2nd largest producer of silver. Shanghai Metals Exchange (Organization) will have surprises for USA, LBMA, Comex. Watch Black Rock ETFs and Bank of England.

Stock Ag Bars . The US should support American Miners. Our balance of trade and our establishments of Tariffs will not work in our favor? Maybe?

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Simon Gedye's avatar

This is at the back of my mind as well . Ultimately believe that these tariffs when imposed will back fire majorly ( as did the sanctions to cripple Putin & Xhi ) .

As regards the ' Bank Of England ' they're a busted flush ' - completely insolvent as per most of the rest of the banks , as indeed is our new sclerotic wanker filled socialist

government over here in the UK .." WE'RE DOOMED I TELL YE......DOOMED "

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Mitch's avatar

Is this what you're talking about David? "Silver-Tariff Risk Diminishes LBMA: There has been apprehension that liquidity on London’s physical market has fallen as traders have shipped silver to the US in anticipation of trade restrictions, a dynamic worth following." -BOA, January 15th"

I just got this in as part of an email from another group watching what's happening

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David Jensen's avatar

Take opinion from a bullion bank that is likely short silver with a boatload of salt.

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Simon Gedye's avatar

Quite So .

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Simon Gedye's avatar

Are you " That Mitch " ( My Mitch from north of the border in bandit country ) ..??

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Peter Jackson's avatar

U.S. silver miners, unaffected by the tariffs, could price their silver slightly below the tariff-adjusted price of imported silver to remain competitive while still commanding a premium above the global market price.

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David Jensen's avatar

Agree.

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James Irwin's avatar

Maybe

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Stephen's avatar

So much to contemplate here. Have US bullion banks already been covertly moving silver to the US in large quantities, to mitigate the pain of short covering post-tariffs? The Hamilton-McKinley economics approach should invigorate domestic silver mining and processing; is it also part of the planned demise of the FED petro-dollar regime and associated gold and silver price suppression/demonization?

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David Jensen's avatar

There is so much USD denominated debt that it will sustain demand for USD for a while. Question is how long.

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James Irwin's avatar

Absolutely correct!

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James Irwin's avatar

What is a US Bullion Bank.

(? JP MORGAN’s purchase of silver early in 2000?)

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Stephen's avatar

The subset of these banks with US operations, for lack of a formal definition: https://www.bullionstar.com/gold-university/bullion-banking-mechanics#heading-7

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Stephen's avatar

True—I’m surprised the system writ large has lasted this long in the post-2008 GFC environment. Perhaps this unexpected longevity will continue.

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David Jensen's avatar

Nobody knows.

Wise to be ready for any eventuality.

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James Irwin's avatar

Buy 100 oz bars, 1 oz rounds, coins pre 65 and new mint.

Of metal you can afford.

A experienced trader with MONEX experience said buying platinum dimes will be traded more easily than Gold coins and bars

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Stephen's avatar

Amen

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Jochen's avatar

I hate to destroy your illusions, but the U.S produces such a tiny amount of world silver production (about 4%) that it wouldn't matter. The americans are so good at marketing that the whole world thinks they are the top dog. Far from it (apart from the financialization, of course. That's where they shine). Additionally, the world begins to realize - thanks to the antics of Mr. Trump - that the U.S. has become a failed state without the rule of law. The last thing any reasonable person would do is to ship their silver into such a place where it can be seized on a whim. Instead there probably would be premiums for silver outside the U.S. in a safe jurisdiction and silver supply to the U.S. would simply dry up. What that means for the U.S. economy is clear.

But they can still trade billions of ounces on COMEX forever. No problem.

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David Jensen's avatar

The US is in an extremely painful process of ridding itself of a terrible case of parasites and appears to be more advanced in the process, irrespective of its leadership, than Europe and Canada. We'll see how that goes. It comes down to the fiber of the people.

Now in the meantime, the US still has highly productive and innovative capacity relative to the rest of the world. There will be demand for US products and the US will IMO be able to import products.

The big question that I see is whether the US, Canada, and Europe totally burn down from the violent internal and external assaults that have and are coming their way.

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Jochen's avatar

Trick question:

Imagine you suddenly realize - as a country - that all the CB's in the world have been gobbling up every single ounce of gold they could over the last few years, because they knew the jig was up. All except yours, because you believed your fiat currency would last forever. But now it's gotten so bad, even you realize the jig is up and you better get some. So now you're late to the party, and you need the gold, and you need it fast. But noone will sell to you, and of course you want it on the cheap, because you never lose money, and forget about "free markets". You just wanna have it. What to do ?

How about creating a "tariff threat" and disseminating it all over the "financial media" you control, knowing most "investment managers" are just dumb trend followers and braindead headline junkies and will do everything you tell them on "financial media", like "everyone having gold outside your country loses money" or "looming tariff threat causes everyone to re-patriate their gold (to your country,of course)" ?

Of course it would mean it's over, but it's over anyway and at least you get some gold before it all comes crashing down.

And then you just wait until the yellow stuff comes rushing in.

And then you take it.

Fun fact: the number one holding of new US treasury secretary Scott Bessent - before he became a politician - was ... You guessed it.

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David Jensen's avatar

Thanks Jochen - we will see.

Many a slip between cup and lip.

There are a LOT of moving pieces.

Nationalizing gold after destroying the currency won't sit well with citizens.

400M US guns will likely vote against that.

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Jochen's avatar

You are naive as to what "citizens" can be made to accept these days.

They will ask them to take the gold on their knees because you cannot eat it and hunger is quite a motivation.

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James Irwin's avatar

Very doubtful Americans will revolt.

Here in Los Angeles, California we were just nearly destroyed by FIRE.

California State Government is incompetent.

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James Irwin's avatar

True. USA is a small fish in mines.

Bank’s financings are equal to our war strategies. Sub Prime, College Loans and Wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan show our Strategic marketing and war planning. LOOK at our craziness in spending and DEBTS.

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Vincent5150's avatar

The US Criminal Banking Cartel could care less about tariffs, as they will never be subject to them.

Any attempt to enforce will simply result in the navigation of loopholes similar to the US tax codes.

Besides the Criminals have their fingers all in the London Pie and any other (see Poland, Khazak, Spain) which allows them to airlift, slowboat or swap anything they'd like.

North american miners are indebted to the Criminals and have little or no leverage.

Hey, you asked!

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David Jensen's avatar

Thanks for your thoughts.

We'll see with time.

No person knows the future for sure.

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Vincent5150's avatar

Are EFR and EFP a "thing" in London?

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James Irwin's avatar

Wow. Amazing. Thank you. Just when I thought about buying stock in some mining companies.

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Vincent5150's avatar

Miners are a complete gamble, as you must already be holding when the stocks move violently. That could mean holding for years before that move occurs. Worse even is that miners have a nasty habit of being shorted, resulting in slow bleeds of your money. Although I don't believe in either, you're better off in SLV or Sprott.

I'm currently booking 80% gains on physical, resulting from a buy & hold strategy. Selling is also less aggravation, no commissions and less paperwork.

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Don's avatar

Conversely Canadian/Mexican miners would be taking a hit as they mainly import to the US. Trump is going to implement tarrifs, whether he does them across the board or not remains to be seen. He says he wants to reindustrialise, so logically he should tariff finished good (cars etc) rather than raw materials.

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David Jensen's avatar

Very tough to say exactly what is going to happen.

We will see with time.

Cdn/Mex miners will sell silver at world price not internal higher US price.

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James Irwin's avatar

Africa has tremendous Gold(Au) deposits. South America & Mexico have tremendous Silver(Ag) deposits.

China has Ag and BRICS have gold Au.

A fight for Au tonnage for Central Banks? Interesting.

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Justin's avatar

My mindset is that tariffs are Kryptonite to the globalists, as it can provide a foundation to manufacturing within an affluent nation state. If silver regains its use as a medium of currency exchange then the characteristics of its "market" would change considerably. Would a tariff be applied to the commodity used to back a currency???

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David Jensen's avatar

Personally, I doubt that silver will be used to create a 'silver standard' currency.

However, I think that silver will circulate as private money.

It seems inevitable IMO.

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James Irwin's avatar

Yes. Maybe. Look at the Texas Silver Depository and Silver Bars. A currency could be in the future?

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Justin's avatar

Maybe as part of a Gold and Silver currency system, tied into a digital representation for the current age??? I am just guessing 👍. Although we do have some history with gold being used in an international context with silver as local money???

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David Jensen's avatar

There will be attempts to lasso everyone into digital currency for control purposes.

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James Irwin's avatar

Maybe

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Justin's avatar

If there was an office you could walk into and exchange a digital representation of gold and silver for physical gold and silver and vis versa then that would be a much easier way to continue with the current way of buying and selling things. It would be a smoother transition???

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David Jensen's avatar

A major problem with such a system is 1) privacy and 2) govs always abuse the "gold standard" currency system by eventually destroying the currency.

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Justin's avatar

Yes, very good points. It was a system that was manipulated and controlled.

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Jan 26
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David Jensen's avatar

If the price on the global market is $30, if a user wants to import silver from the global market the price will be $33 for them. The domestic buyer will have to pay. Less foreign silver is imported and domestic producers will be able to sell at a marginally higher price between $30 and $33 until domestic demand is met. If demand is not met with local production then the price in the US will be $33.

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